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[11 Svo] How to adjust Throttle Body



On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Mike Fleming wrote:

> Scott Shidel... wrote:
> > I just want to start by saying I wa in no way attempting to flame or pick
> > at you.  I usually just cut rite to what I want to say, and sometimes it
> > may seem like i am being harsh when Im not tryin to.
> 
> No problem. I enjoy the info exchange, when I have the time.
> 
Good, jus wanted to make sure we weren't pounding toes:)

> > Well, its just less efficient.  Unless the efficiency is down at like 45%.
> > But these turbos are no gems either. I *heard* the highest efficiency
> > puddle on a map is like 68%.  Thats as good as it gets anyhow...And as for
> > turbos and efficiency goes, that straight up sux.
> 
> Pardon but these compressor maps show 72% in the general operating range
> for the stock profile engine. By the time it gets down to 65%, you're in
> trouble even with a cooler. 45%? Better off to not put on the blower at
> all. There are many people much more knowledgable than I on blowers (and
> they seem to spend more time on the Merkur list) so you might want to
> checkout the archives.
>  

Does the motor run that efficeincy at like 15lbs?  Thats whats improtant.
Not how a 2.0L motorr will run at a 1.5:1 PR.  I beleive what the person
was tellin me that saw that was the highest efficency puddle for the motor
at a meaningful boost pressure(not a PR of like 1.3:1:), was about 68%. I
would really like ot get a copy of the map for myself.  Do you have a copy
of the FORD 2.3 trim T3 compressor?  But I said 45% exaggerating to make a
point. At what efficiancy is 19psi then?  You said its off the scale or
soemthing.  I doubt it would be much lower than mid 60's.

> > Whattya mean?  You can see on the pump when they refilled the underground
> > tanks?
> 
> What state are you in? Here in AZ and in CA I've never seen them updated
> but perhaps twice a year - and I seem to remember the underground sand
> pits being distrubed at least once a week. You can't measure octane
> chemically - it's a very complex mechanical test process. Any
> petrochemists out there?

What are you tlakin aobut as far as labels and the tanks?  I am soo lost.
The only time they dig up the tanks here in florida is when the place
closes.  

> 
> > With varying qualities of gas with the same octane rating, what is
> > considered good gas and whats lousy? I have no idea so I run Fina(or
> > Supertest brand) in the escort and Mobil in the Pinto.  I heard Mobil sux
> > too, but I never hear whats supposed to be better.
> 
> Wich I had a hard and fast answer for you but you already drive an
> octane testing, boost-adjusting engine so why not let it tell you what's
> good and what's not? If it didn;t ping or surge on the last tank and it
> does now, then this one's bad.
> 
True, sorta kinda.  But it takes me about 3 months to go thru half a tank
of gas in the Pinto, and it gets tinkered with alot between fills..And the
merkur surges jus from the factory.  Mine does up around 14psi, and I
thought there was a prob till i takled to other ppl that say their cars
do/did the same thing.


> > Thing about the KS that bothers me its alot more things than detonation
> > set it off(ie, Motorsport roller off the top of my head).  thats why I
> > dont like to run it.  If the car is set up rite, it should work without
> > it, 
> 
> Wrong! Thsi system in very agressive and interactive. If it worked
> without hte KS, then the timing is too late always.
> 
What do you mean by that?  You mean the proper way(and the way Ford does
it) is to spec the timing to run right on the ragged edge of detonation?
So that as soon as it hears ANYTHING that sounds like a knock it can pull
a ton of timing out which will slow the car down even more?
These things, especially in near stock form, can run witht he facotry base
timing, at factory boost levl, and as long as you run decnt gas in them
they wont knock.  I dont care what anyone says.  I see no advantage to
advancing the timing to the point that the KS will come on and throw it
way back.
And like i said, the big problem I see with it is more than knocks set off
the KS.  You seem to fell confident that you know how it works.  I beleive
the way it works is it listens for vibrations that are equal to the
natural frequncy(1st mode shape, the most intense) of the block or whatver
the sensor is screwed into.  And lets say you take a hammer and stike a
peice of metal or something.   You know what frequency it will vibrate?
The natural frequency.  You know what the test for determining if the KS
is good or bad is right? Whap the block or whatever with a hammer.  To me,
that says the KS is tuned to the natural frequency of the block.  and
anything that impacts the block with a frequency equal to or higher than
the natural frequncy will make the block vibrate at its natural frequency.
Keep adding all these little points up and guess what?  Knock sensor will
be tripped if the magnitude is strong enuff.

> > and even if something does happen, unless your really not paying
> > attention, you should be able to react and get off the throttle quick
> > enuff to atleast equal damage prevention capabilities of the KS.  Contrary
> > to maybe popular belief, it takes more than 3 seconds of detonation to
> > blow a head gasket.  
> 
> How long does it take to get down the quarter mile? How about the next
> stop light? Who has enough sense to back off when the other guy's right
> there and you can't hear the detonation? Do it if you want, but be
> prepared to be towed home.

Lets see....if your racing a guy or goin down the track, and you throw a
rod, would you keep in it or let off and pull over? I guess maybe you
would stay in it.  To me its the same thing..Detonation is saying, HEY,
SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE, and if you ignore it to prove something to a
stranger at a stoplight, you deserve to blow a head gasket.
As for the guy being rite next to you and not being able to hear it,
detonation is not one of those things that only happens one time out of
every 10 WOT runs.  If your car has  a prob with pinging, its gonna do it
alot more than that one time you race a guy in an old Cuda witha  440 and
glasspacks.  I think most ppl would know it as soon as the problem
started, and ifthe problem was bad enuff to torch a motor in one run, I
have news for you..the KS doesn't help that much.  It takes extreme,
clanking, you-have-to-be-brainded-not-to-hear-it detonation to do damage
in one pass.  The ONLY time I have ever blown head gaskets on the pinto is
when I had the wastegate line come off and the boost went and pegged a
25psi gauge......I use hoseclamps now:)

> 
> > I beleive its a good addition to a high risk
> > situation when being driven by people of varying intelligence(the way Ford
> > has to approach the situation), but I would think that almost everyone on
> > this list would have the sense to atleast let off if they heard
> > detonation. And that stategy will not damage your motor if you make an
> > effort to correct the problem.  Damge will occur if you bonehed around
> > like that for a year.
> 
> I don;t assume that at all. I know many smart people, some of them very
> good drivers, that will drive the car unbtil it does - won;t go over 40
> MPH so I'm oulling the engine this weekend). Look at the Merkur list.
> They need the "Ford's EFI Turbo for Dummies" book.

Exactly.  I dunno..maybe stuff to me is obvious that a brain surgeon
wouldn't have a clue about.  When my engine goes "clatter clatter clatter"
when I get on it, it means to me theres a prob.  And like I said, the KS
setup was designed for ppl like that.  People like us that have the common
sense enuff to get out when the motor is knocking, or not drive the next
10 miles to the next phone with the oil lite on or the temp guage on the
peg, can get away without the KS on the car.


 Feel free to
> disconnect it but do your homework first. And if you get a bad tank of
> gas, don't drive the car.
> 

I nevewr said to pull the sensor out and cut the wires did I?  If that was
the case, I would jus plug it back in, and head out for alot of driving to
waste alot of gas.

> > Hell, the pinto doesn't ping, but it went from running a 14.3 to running
> > 13.9 on its first nite at the track when I dc'd the KS.
> 
> So your engine is definitely octane limited.

Like I said, never blown a head gasket when the car wasn't running 30psi
of boost:)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott
->71 Pinto stonestock 2.3 EFI Turbo T5, 13.67@99 on generic radials
->86 Escort..A/C, tinted windows, Alloy wheels, 5 speed, good shape 
            $1000obo
->85 Merkur--Someone get this Escort of mine! I WANNA DRIVE MY MERK:)
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