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SVO: Re: Exhaust systems and downpipes

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 Mp23cc@aol.com wrote:
Noone is diputing a 3" DP will help a car with an aftermarket exhaust.
YOu switched it into talin aobut aftermarket catbacks and hi flow cats.  I
was tryin to say that witha  stock cat and cat back, your not going to see
hi hp numbers by only changing the downpipe.  And you are almost proving
me right becasue all you talk aobut is cars with aftemarket exhausts.
And even if you do get an increase with a 3" DP on a stock exhaust, its
not as big as the increase you would get by putting a hi flow cat and good
cat back on a stock DP.  Coming back yet?   remember, an individual
recommended doing a cat back first and then the contradictions started?

> Rapido claim's that the Borla dual exhaust is good for upto 20hp over stock.
> They claim that the single exhaust is good for upto 10hp over stock. Ric has
> found a 6 hp gain over the Borla 2.5'' downpipewith our 3'' downpipe.

> Shultz made made 213 hp  with our level two exhaust system, 3'' downpipe, 2
> 1/2'' hi-flow cat, 2 1/2'' cat back.

And your point is?  he has a totally stock car otherwise? Stock down to
the filter?  or your saying its possible to flow 213 hp thru the
exhaust?  with no before statement, I just have no idea what you are
trying to say.

> With the claims we have here, if  you do
> the math you find some interesting  hp numbers.

> Better cat back system on a stock car is good for upto 10 hp.

I never doubted that.....

> 2 1/2'' downpipe is good for upto 10 hp

Interesting...you or dave was saying the Borla 2.5" pipe was good for
nothing....now its good for 10hp?

> 3'' downpipe is good for upto 16 hp, withn a better cat back set-up

I guess I would have to see it to beleive it....

> a 3'' downpipe and hi-flow cat is good for upto 26 hp.

That sounds about right....

> The hp gains with the 3'' downpipe is only half the story. Hp by itself means
> nothing in the street. The hp power gains are great to have, but the real
> gain is in the turbo response. Faster turbo response mean more lowend torque.
> This is what moves the car faster, and this is why every 2.3 turbo needs a
> 3'' downpipe.

I'm not saying it doesn't...but it needs a better cat and cat back MORE
than a downpipe...quit turning this thread into an advertisement.  noone
is saying a hi flow exhaust is not a good idea...jus sayin its kinda dumb
to put a hi flow downpipe on then connect it to a cat back that flows a
10th as good as the stock downpipe...

> greater lowend torque is worth much more then the cost of the downpipe. Like
> I said before, theories and charts are great to look at , but sometimes they
> should be kept for bathroom reading only. You can spend days and nites doing
> all the math you want. Or you can build the products and do the testings.

I can spend about an hour with math, a brief knowledge of fluid dynamics, 
and COMMON sense to realize that certain things will be a waste of time. I
dont need to put 500lbs of concrete in the trunk and pull 3 plug wires to
know I will slow down...Common sense tells me that, jus like it tells me
that replacing the part that restricts flow the least will give me the
smallest return.

> Sometimes you find gains and sometime you do not, you try to learn  why it
> did not work and make changes. The facts are if something works it works. If
> you do not like why it works then that is you right to question the why. But
> you can not question the facts, and the facts are that the 3'' downpipe on
> even a stock works well.

Blah blah blah......here we are 2 weeks into the thread, and Im awaiting
the FACTS on a 3" DP helping a car with a STOCK CAT AND CAT BACK!  All I
hear is it "feels faster" and "it sounds faster".  
And I would relly like to hear the before and after numbers ona  stock
car, not a car with a hi flow filter, chip, intercooler, etc...


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-71 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, 13.67@98, radials
	8.1@85 1/th mile on slicks
	Big intercooler ON!
	T4 Compressor soon to be on!

-85 Merkur, let the modding begin!