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Re: SVO: Modern Performance

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, DIRKPIT777 wrote:

> To Joe and Cory,
> You guys are like a couple of children, all you do is critisize and complain
> about the hard work of others, but offer no solutions or help yourself.

Wake up dude..joe is designing a roller cam with Web Cam rite now....want
some ketchup to go with your foot?  

> Over the last year or more i have done extensive engine modifications to my
> 1988 Turbo Coupe. I have listened to the claims of many parts suppliers and so
> called experts, most of which turned out to be just plain 1/2 truths to sell
> product. Once they have your money, tough luck.

Whos debating that fact?  I bet if Steve was on the list you wouldnt be
talkin sh*t about him either........

> I don't often post to the list because self appointed "experts" like
> yourselves spend incredible amounts of energy telling people what they have
> DONE.....can't be done ....with often very flawed logic and a mind set that
> believes there is only ONE way to do something.

Thats where the problem is.....I rember Nick telling me and Joe that what
WE HAVE DONE could not be done....And that what Joe is doin is all
wrong...Well lets see here, track times mean power, not the dyno anyhow.
And who has run their 2.3 in the 10s? How bout 11's? 12's? low 13's? Joe
has.....I cant say the same for nick on any of those.....

> I have a fair amount of engineering experience being the Engineering Manager
> for a large automotive co for quite a few years......i have all the
> develpoment engineers and analitical engineers reporting to me.  These groups
> represent the pure theoretial MIT  brillant types and the hands on cut and try
> hardware types. The cut and try guys are ALWAYS doing things the pure
> theoretial guys, with all the computer modeling and Finite Element Modeling
> say can't be done.

And your point is?  You saying Joe doesnt spend time on his car?  Its
making more power than nicks with less aftermarket parts, so he must be
doin something rite...

 The new engineers learn very quickly from me....not to tell
> me something that has been done...can't be done...They better reinvent their
> theory and figure out why It IS being done. (There is a big lesson here for
> all the young engineering students.....next books and pure theory is a far cry
> from the real world of engineering)

Yep, but sooner or later the person that is claiming it works ought to be
able to say why it works.  And his proof of it working better be more than
just a fairy tale from the "It Sounds Good" book of skewed dyno tests.

> Don't get me wrong, to question and debate things is great, everyone learns in
> the process and people will ALWAYS have differing OPIONS....this is a good
> thing and keeps us all objective.

Now I am confused...what are you saying?  All I see is someone questioning
the improvement, and asking for a valid test result.....

> But what i have seen at times is an attitude of aggressive attacks on a
> someone who has contributed immensely and with a very high level of integrity
> to our  common passion of the 2.3L turbo engine.

Sort of like you are doing?  Attacking Joe without knowing anything about
him.  You ask people who dont get all wet over the newest aftermarket
peice to come down the pipe, and they will tell you Joe is a very nice
guy.  his car was featured in MM&FF, and how I hooked up with him is I
called 411 in the area code the article said he lived in, and called
him..I felt like i was imposing, by doiong that, but he was real cool and
in the first phone call told me pretty much all about his car, not keeping
any secrets.  How many of the "Fastest XXXX Owners" you know will do that?
If there is someone ruunning better than 10.90s in a full bodied 2.3 car,
I will take that back, but so far he is the fastest I know of. And there
are a few places on the net to get a FULL write up down to bearing/ring
clearances on his engine, so dont act like he doesnt contribute...His car
is an open book...

> I have compared in my own car the stock cam....runs out of power about
> 5000Erpm...the ETS roller....poor idle, no low end or mid range but a killer
> top end, and Nicks cam...stock like idle, good low and mid range and killer
> high top end for as high as u want to go.  (Just like he advertises) And
> NO...i don't have dyno numbers or track times...i could't care less about them
> really, when the car runs and feels that much stronger by the seat of my
> pants....thats what is important to me....and most people who use their cars
> as daily drivers on the street.
> Even if  dyno numbers were not to show any gain.....I love the way if FEELS.

Again, what is your point? Noone is sayng his cam sux all that much, just
wondering what it does for HP...I'm glad you like how it feels even if the
car is still slow. But if I am going to spend the effort modding my car,
its going to improve...

> Why don't one or BOTH of you put YOUR money where YOUR big mouths are. Surely
> between the two of you, you can come up with the money........buy one of his
> cams and do the tests yourselves.

i tell you what..I have a cam here that I claim will make you 1500hp on
your stock engine...Specs are .385 valve lift, 115 deg @.050 duration, 140
degree lobe centers..Cost is $9999...When do you want one?  Dont tell me
it dopesnt live up until you actually fork over the cash and try it.

Pretty rediculous huh?

...you won't believe the results any other
> way anyways.......I wonder....if you are proved WRONG if you will be MEN (have
> the manners) enought to admit it and publicly applogize.

Joe has done it before, but I never seen nick accept beign wrong. Just
turns the topic into somehting it wasnt and gets everyone sick of seeing
it so they complain before he has to admit it.. 

 > > So who are you
children going to pick on and try to drive out of business > next?...I
have a few suggestions.....One of them still owes me $600 for a mass > air
kit that didn't work and was returned 5 months ago....and the check is in
> the mail....again.  > 

Whos running him out of bizz? This has no effect
anyhow. alot of people do jus like they did when they were 3 or 4 and put
their hands over their ears and start yelling so they dont hear the

> Regards, Craig
> Sorry this is so long....just couldn't stand by and say nothing.


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-71 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, 13.67@98, radials
	8.1@85 1/8th mile on slicks
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