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Re: SVO: Dirty pool

On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Mp23cc wrote:

> I told everyone back then and I will say it now. You cannot safely make 300 hp
> with stock injectors and stock fuel pressure. Joe never made 300 hp without,
> his dyno sheet is only show's about  240 I think.

Never made 300 HP with stock injectors? You're nuts! In fact, I remember
hearing from Joe that the 42's consistently slowed his car down (too much

> As for the valve springs, they are not the right springs to use for our motor.
> You guys are so into numbers, How about the important numbers. Check out the
> installed height of the springs. You are about .120 passed the installed
> height that Ford tells you to use. You get away with it because you only use a
> low lift camshaft. 

Low lift? The engle is .418 total lift and the stock stick cam is like
.400...there is not much difference there. The stock springs suck, and the
C302's are a cheap and reliable alternative to the pumped lifter problem.
There is no black magic here. 

> But you are running alot more pressure then Engle would
> like you to use. I did droped it because after someone had the camshaft fail,
> they called Engle and got the real info on the springs. Guess what, they say
> the same thing that I say. 

I was the one who rounded off the Engle. I threw it in my stock head and
poof.. exhaust lobes were gone. I tore the head apart and called up engle. 
Jeff (the owner) told me that the spring must have done it, and that
anything more than 85 lbs at the seat and 160lbs at max lift was too much.
I told him that I wind this engine up to 6200 and he basically told me
that the cam couldn't take springs that would allow it to rev that high.
Hmmm, interesting...the cam is advertised for high RPM use. I had the
springs checked, and they were 120lbs at the seat and 280lbs at max
lift...but the geometry was also hosed (exhaust seats were sunk BIG
TIME!). Going against Engles advice to put back in the stock (read: weak)
springs I had the geometry problem fixed (new seats/valve job) and threw
in a different set of springs from a 6-cyl Ford application. They measured
120lbs at seat and 240lbs max with crower offset retainers. Voila!
Everything is fine. My point is that Engle didn't really know what they
were talking about -- Joe is running 280 lbs springs in his Pinto with no
incident, and I might return to the C302's IF I have the head apart again
and plan on revving up to 7K. I love how you base "fact" on third party
lore.  The truth is, you CAN run the C302's and many are doing it. End

> Hick? You need to get out of school for a week and come out to the North East.
> Maybe when you are out here I will show you why you can run a .505 lift
> camshaft in the stock head. 
> You got balls? So does this mean you agree to my offer? Thanks again

Hey, what a coincidence...I just graduated! Whatta say about me taking a
trip in the Pinto out there? What exit do you live at? (joke -- sorry Joe,
couldn't resist). We can go racin' and I'll show you what a "Black Magic"
car can do...BTW How fast IS your Merk? Have you hit the 13's? Thanks